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I started out writing this thread as a post. In noticing its length I thought, why not make it a front page news listing. So please excuse the non-professional banter. This thread is very "forumesque" rather than "newsesque". Not even sure if I can add "-esque" to those words like that, but I guess I just did. Be aware I will be discussing many different games in this thread. Please keep the discussions centered around the points I am making rather than skewing the topic of discussion entirely onto the games mentioned. Note: that these video examples are for the xbox version, however regardless of what console they are for, it gives us the FIRST full on view of the multiplayer. I'm talking full 16 player deathmatch here people. I would have shown PS2 movies but hey, there are no links available for them. The xbox and PS2 versions are so damn close graphically, and identical gameplay wise that it just doesn't really matter.
http://games.teamxbox.com/xbox/830/Area-51/#movies (Check out the movies above. There are 3 deathmatch clips, and then some team modes. The download link is at the base of the page after you click on a movie.) And now my own impressions. Let me start off by saying that I give, and most likely will even more when i get my copy of the game, tons of props to Inevitable for their technological prowess. They make efficient games that run good...no...scratch that, amazing. That being said, they lack horribly in the originality department. From watching more of these movies and going off of what I have read, instead of coming up with an entirely original first person shooter experience, they instead rip off countless halmarks of the fps genre. Some are just flat out blatant rip-offs. First of all, from the movies you will notice, Area 51 has jump pads. Exactly like those found in Quake 3 Arena or Unreal Tournament. These have no real business being here. They are out of place and the first thing I think of when looking at these things is UT / Q3. The game also has this one mode called Infection. This mode is entirely identical to a gamemode from Aliens vs Predator 2, called Survivor. In AVP2, Survivor games are divided between two species acting as teams: survivors and mutants. When a survivor game starts, everyone begins as a survivor and there is a brief free-for-all elimination round where the first survivor killed takes the role of a mutant. Thereafter, every second a survivor stays alive, he scores one point. When a mutant kills a survivor, the mutant scores ten points and the survivor respawns as a mutant (if a survivor kills himself, he transforms into a mutant but no points are gained or lost by anyone). Team killing (survivors killing survivors or mutants killing mutants) results in a loss of ten points. The round ends when only mutants remains (all survivors have been killed). This is IDENTICAL in every way to the Infection mode in Area 51. Not just similar. It is downright EXACT. Even down to the point scoring element. As far as the DUAL weapon pickup feature. I don't know what original game this is a rip off of(I believe Bond games might have done this first). Most likely though this was done to appeal to Halo gamers. It is such a huge gameplay mechanic in Halo. Finally in the single player experience there is said to be a scanner on your arm, which you use to aim around and scan certain objects to pick up more information. Yea...ok....Metroid Prime? Hellooooooooo... This is a very conflicting issue for me. While I am pissed off on a moral level that Inevitable chose to draw what people in the industry like to call 'inspiration' from many of the other fps's on the market, I am excited that features from my favorite FPS's on the PC are playable in a form on my PS2. It is like a double edged sword, a catch 22 if you will. I am pretty darn irritated because not only do they jack these gameplay elements, but review sites will post innacurate conclusions about Area 51. I wonder how many authors will call Area 51's Infection mode "innovative", or "never seen in another video game". I bet someone will. I am not a blind tool. I realise this crap has been happening since the dawn of human existance. People walk on the backs of others and the originators seem to never get credit for anything. It just frustrates me to no end, because why try and make anything and show it to anyone? You know they are just going to take it and claim it as their own. It's madness I tell you. I realise this is nothing new in the world, but it frustrates me to no end. I hate posers. So I am sitting here watching the video thinking in my mind at the exact same time: "Holy shit! WOW!! Jump pads! this fucking rules!" and then "Gofdlekkas0980234asdf what?! jump pads? thats right from UT/Q3?! you can't steal that shit!" I was hoping Area 51, or atleast ONE of the FPS's this year would bring that fast blistering speed of deathmatch to the PS2. I crave this type of action. Fast paced, in your face deathmatch. Your skill and hand eye coordination are a must. I enjoy deathmatch games that could technically be considered a sport (such as Q3 and UT). Area 51 looks like it will deliver the goods. Yes, TimeSplitters is probobly one of the best console games for this, but you cannot JUMP in that game. In the end I would rather have an online console game that had to rip off some of my favorite fps's on the PC, rather than not have a game do this at all. Does this qualify me as being spineless? Eh not really. I'm not going to be a bra-burner and get all uppity about it. In the end I just would have rather had Inevitable come up with some more original gameplay mechanics a la Project Snowblind. There is ONE innovative thing in Area 51 not seen in another FPS. The fact that it is innovative most likely has to do with it being a technology innovation rather than a gameplay design innovation. The game will sport scalable mapping. Rather than create larger or smaller maps, the maps will scale according to the users in the game. Doors will be blocked off leading to other areas if you have a smaller player count. Thus eliminating the problematic situation of 2 players wandering the map trying to find each other. Last edited by lordnikon on Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:52 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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| _________________ The most effective, in this war? The Bydo have it... and they control it. |
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nice videos. this is loooking like this will be a solid game with a good story single player and good multiplayer. | |||
| _________________ Everyone needs Sorrow------------------- |
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Uh I think you're a little too judgemental on this one, while it's been seen before, there's not a whole lot you can do to a FPS. Infection I think is much more likely to have been ripped from TimeSplitters than AVP2. I say this based on the fact that in our discussion on game modes, the most mentioned game was TimeSplitters and included comments on modes like Virus and it's friends. Guess which game wasn't mentioned?
Jump pads I've seen in plenty of places and in fact I think it makes more sense in an Area 51 setting than in a random temple or something like you see in Unreal or Quake. I don't see it as stealing at all. The idea was not necessarily even originally from the games you mention, though certainly popularized by them. The scalable environments are not just in my mind a technical innovation. The idea was original and not stolen and Rico had it for quite some time. Area 51 gave him the chance to implement this idea. It does add something to the game and I think it's really important. If Area 51 does well, then I garauntee you that all FPS games from now one will include the feature. I won't get mad and I doubt Rico would for the the "stolen" idea so I don't see why you should be upset about the others. Also note that the mutant stuff while not entirely original, is definitely implemented in a unique way and is a large part of the game. Keep in mind: this is what we asked for. He said "what would you like to see?" and we answered. The comunication system? When you play, do a search on GamerPlug for "headset communication ideas" or something like that. If you want, I'll find you the thread. Read that thread and compare it to the final system. Will it be original? Maybe not. Will it be what we wanted? Yes. Perhaps it's the gamers and the industry that are not original, not the dev team. He asked us again, and we answered again. Those response will most likely be compiled into a game proposal that might for all we know become a reality. Not everything we want is original and in fact you said it yourself, it's what you want. |
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If imitation is sincerely the truest form of flattery, then I think it's safe to say that Inevitable is comprised of huge fans of FPS games. It looks like they took the "best of the rest" approach to what was included in the game.
By no stretch should it be called innovative, but it would appear they attempted to build a shooter for shooters. If that's the case, then hopefully, their multiplayer deathmatch modes will hopefully live up to expectations. Someone does need to step up and raise the bar on FPSers though. The genre needs a shot in the arm. |
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I have no qualms with Area 51 if it rips from other more established shooters as long as it is a quality game online.
-Mytho |
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| _________________ Need a copy of Twisted Metal Black Online? PM me! |
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Apple wrote:
Uh I think you're a little too judgemental on this one, while it's been seen before, there's not a whole lot you can do to a FPS. Yes there is a lot you can do to an FPS. Project Snowblind is a perfect example. Brand new FPS, brand new gameplay mechanics. For instance characters have a blast shield they can toss out which pops up. In multiplayer chars that have them can toss up to 4 of them. You can block off areas, or even cut off an enemy as he is attacking you disrupting his attack path. The only real effective way to destroy this is using an EMP grenade. The use of EMP in this game spreads to many different things, from creating the snowblind effect to disrupting the enemies aug's. The H.E.R.F. gun's secondary fire will launch out these pods which can stick to any surface including enemies. If an enemy runs by it will distrupt their vision and the augmentation if they are using it. After their time as run out they explode. So attaching them to enemies is a great idea, but more importantly attatching them to tanks, cars, and bi-pedal mechs is also extremly effective. As you can keep on stacking them onto the enemy, and has the chance to kill them long after you have been killed. To say it's all been done before, that we should all just give up and copy what already exists, means we would still be in the stone age right now. Apple wrote:
Infection I think is much more likely to have been ripped from TimeSplitters than AVP2. I say this based on the fact that in our discussion on game modes, the most mentioned game was TimeSplitters and included comments on modes like Virus and it's friends. Guess which game wasn't mentioned? You need only one to prove a game of unoriginality. Plus AVP2 was released before TimeSplitters 2. Apple wrote:
Jump pads I've seen in plenty of places and in fact I think it makes more sense in an Area 51 setting than in a random temple or something like you see in Unreal or Quake. I don't see it as stealing at all. The idea was not necessarily even originally from the games you mention, though certainly popularized by them. Well which game was the jump pad originally from? The first game I can find that has the jump pad in it was Quake 3 Arena released in 1999. Apple wrote:
The scalable environments are not just in my mind a technical innovation. The idea was original and not stolen and Rico had it for quite some time. Area 51 gave him the chance to implement this idea. It does add something to the game and I think it's really important. Yea I thought about this for a while when I made my original post. The thing to remember here, is that playing within a smaller map with 4 players is not innovative or new. Hence the scalable maps do not effect game design. They are a technical achievement that circumvents having to set specific maps int he options menu. It is a time saver. The only thing it does is enable more gaming to be done, and less fiddling with the menus or game options. Thus it is a technical innovation rather than an innovation on game design. Apple wrote:
If Area 51 does well, then I garauntee you that all FPS games from now one will include the feature. I would agree that this technology will become a common function in first person shooters, unless it is pattented of course. Apple wrote:
I won't get mad and I doubt Rico would for the the "stolen" idea so I don't see why you should be upset about the others. The possibility of 1 programmer at a game company feeling it is ok for people to use his ideas, does not void the idea that stealing other peoples intellectual ideas is wrong, and under certain circumstances against the law. Certain circumstances being patents. Just because open source software exists does not mean I can steal software interface design ideas from Macromedia Software Products. Apple wrote:
Also note that the mutant stuff while not entirely original, is definitely implemented in a unique way and is a large part of the game. Yes I agree that the mutation functions implimented into standard deathmatch are unique. Apple wrote:
Perhaps it's the gamers and the industry that are not original, not the dev team. Exactly. Gamers and the Industry top brass are NOT original. Developers make video games, developers are supposed to be innovative. Which makes Inevitable's lack of innovation on Area 51 so troubling. Since they are the people developing the game, and are supposed to push the envelope on game design. Instead they chose to only focus on technical achievements in graphics and code optimization rather than game design. Apple wrote:
He asked us again, and we answered again. Those response will most likely be compiled into a game proposal that might for all we know become a reality. Not everything we want is original and in fact you said it yourself, it's what you want. Notice, in my article above I state my excitement before my dissapointment. I wanted Inevitable to make a more innovative game. I would have rather had them remove all the elements they stole for other more original concepts. I am "settling" for what they have come up with in the end. I will most likely end up enjoying Area 51, hopefully. However what they developed is not what I wanted, at all. - GameSpot recently posted their review, done by Alex Navarro. He stated many of the same things I brought up in this thread. here are some highlights: Alex Navarro wrote:
...while Midway's Austin studio has certainly done a good job of mimicking what made these games great, that's about all it's done: mimic.
in grand Metroid Prime fashion, Cole can scan a number of different objects, documents, and corpses as he goes. albeit a multiplayer mode that's about as average as you're going to find in an FPS these days. For the most part, the multiplayer is pretty good and runs well on both the PS2 and Xbox, though there's nothing particularly special about any of it. Area 51 excels most in the realm of visuals. In no way is the game devoid of fun, but FPS fans will often feel like they've experienced a lot of what Area 51 has to offer before, especially when it comes to the multiplayer. So in the end it seems this game will be a playable enjoyable experience. I mean, I don't go by reviews, most sites didn't think too kindly of FireWarrior. Yes that game is a cookie cutter FPS. But I sure enjoy playing it in CTF mode. However with Area 51 many of us most likely expected MORE. I can guarantee you that while the features in Area 51 "get the job done", in the end it will seem like a missed opportunity. We have on our hands an FPS that will play good but is more of the same. Had their been more innovation in the game modes, or gameplay options, Area 51 could have been the Holy Grail of console shooters we were all looking for. |
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| _________________ The most effective, in this war? The Bydo have it... and they control it. |
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| I think that's the difference. Do I want a holy grail? Yes. Did I expect Area 51 to be? No. We all knew what to expect. I'm glad you mention Warhammer because that's how I look at this. Warhammer is great, but basic. Area 51, while having nothing new, seems to be perfectly well rounded in everything it needs. All of our gripes are pretty much answered here, right? We just get a standard shooter. That's fine with me because my intention was to wait for the $20 mark and get it for the price that I'm willing to pay for a standard FPS. I'd much rather have a standard game that runs better than the rest, than have an innovative game that's laggy and buggy. Yes, we want innovation and the basics. This is reflected in the "tell me what you want to see in a game" thread. Go to GamerPlug, I know you hate it but you have an account. There's a thread there that's Rico asking you what you want. If you want to see innovation, tell the technical guy your creative opinions. Will he be stealing your intellectual property? Maybe. Will you be doing anything with it on your own? Doubtful, but who knows. You're right though, there's a lot you can do to an FPS and the first thing I want to see on next gen is a persistent MMOFPS that doesn't suck. | ||||
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Despite the GameSpot review, I'm still going to at least rent this. If it ends up being a disapointment, then I only burned $7 rather than $50.
-Mytho |
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| _________________ Need a copy of Twisted Metal Black Online? PM me! |
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7$ for a rental thats a lot... our is only 99 cents at a local store | |||
| _________________ Everyone needs Sorrow------------------- |
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Mir_wan wrote:
7$ for a rental thats a lot... our is only 99 cents at a local store Whoah!!! Where is this? Here is also seven dollaras...What store is it? Back on topic: I'm gonna rent this one also because I don't have the money and I'm still too much into Timesplitters 3.  |
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| _________________ What's on my PS2 Online: Timesplitters 3: OCdarklink Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow ESPN NFL 2K5 007 Everything or Nothing SOCOM II Need For Speed Underground 1 and 2 Medal of Honor: Rising Sun |
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99 cents at a local company called Adventure video in my town....its great if you want to rent a game and beat it | |||
| _________________ Everyone needs Sorrow------------------- |
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