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Topic: ADDS incompatibility

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Bronco
rank 5
Posted:
Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:30 am
quote : #1
profile : pm
Posts: 33
Type: NTSC-U/C
There is no way to get aads working with taa? Cuz aads made taa a so much better game.
  _________________
xBronco

http://www.tribesaa.com
lordnikon
rank 59
Posted:
Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:15 pm
quote : #2
profile : pm
Posts: 2839
Type: NTSC-U/C
AADS somehow has produced a lag bug, which bogs the entire game down, and and makes it run like garbage. Somehow between windows versions, a patch was introduced in one of the service packs that broke AADS. I first ran into this was when we were hosting the OC game server at another host prior to our current one. TAA was so broken, and at the time I couldn't figure out what the problem was and assumed it was a crappy connection on the host's end. Well turns out, I re-hosted it at another host, and same problem. Also the same problem resulted on my home machine, and other people were having the same issues as well.

On a side note, yes AADS works great when there is a thriving player population there to support the game. However those days are long gone. Maybe they will return someday, but its unlikely. With a low player population AADS merely serves to stifle the remnants of a community base by forcing 5 or less player counts to starve in large terrain based maps leaving few targets and long gaps between encounters. Bots, only available by hosting from a PS2 consoles, add the much needed "ooomf" to the game by creating chaotic warzones with plenty of enemies to shoot at.

Furthermore, "random" human encounters with such a small player base are unlikely. The idea that you will just go online and 'find' someone is exacerbated by the fact that at any given moment people only go to the master list... see nobody is playing.. and leave. When in reality there are 10 other people doing this exact same thing, but since nobody will join or make a game session, they all leave the master list.

For tribes and all other online games we encourage people to schedule games, and even try to get spur of the moment matches going via Jabber through direct connect with an individual; and always encourage people to use bots if the games support it.

Niche online gaming requires a completly different, much more involved mindset.
  _________________
The most effective, in this war?
The Bydo have it... and they control it.
Bronco
rank 5
Posted:
Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:32 am
quote : #3
profile : pm
Posts: 33
Type: NTSC-U/C
hosted players have a pretty much 100 percent change of winning anything. so its going to suck unless the host is away.
guess we got to deal with it tho.
  _________________
xBronco

http://www.tribesaa.com
lordnikon
rank 59
Posted:
Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:32 pm
quote : #4
profile : pm
Posts: 2839
Type: NTSC-U/C
Hosts do have a ping advantage against bots, and less lag when engaging with enemies. Though remember hosts are also at the mercy of pinpoint shooting by bots, and blaster lasers that seek in on a host like white on rice.

I acknowledge that there is inconsistency in gameplay, but I don't feel it is game breaking. (auto-regen stations in later AADS builds were game breaking features)

The only people that will get super bent out of shape about something like this are ego-centric bitchy clan players. Most of which, don't even play tribes anymore.

Based on the culture of game playing instilled here at OnlineConsoles, if the host gets a few more kills, it is an accepted an expected behavior of the environment. Try heading on over to Q3 on the Dreamcast where you have BBA users with a Mouse and Keyboard facing 56K dialup users... who are using a controller that only has 1 analog stick hehe. What attenuates the severity of such advantages is that we discourage gloating, and try to just maintain competitive play where each player can strive to engage targets and have fun.
  _________________
The most effective, in this war?
The Bydo have it... and they control it.
Bronco
rank 5
Posted:
Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:32 am
quote : #5
profile : pm
Posts: 33
Type: NTSC-U/C
I hate playing with bots and would never. wanted to get clan matches going again thats why i was asking.

Thanks
  _________________
xBronco

http://www.tribesaa.com
lordnikon
rank 59
Posted:
Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:49 am
quote : #6
profile : pm
Posts: 2839
Type: NTSC-U/C
Cool that is perfectly fine. The more active players the better, so if you manage to get some success with getting some older players from clan-centric sites to play the game again, cool Wink

My main point is that a master list full of AADS servers will have less regular activity than pre-scheduled matches hosted by PS2's with bots when the participating community population is at such low numbers. This is based off of the trends I have seen in user interaction with online games for the past 7 years.

EDIT: You may want to try running AADS on an older build of WindowsXP to see if it negates the sever game crippling lag.
  _________________
The most effective, in this war?
The Bydo have it... and they control it.
Bronco
rank 5
Posted:
Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:13 pm
quote : #7
profile : pm
Posts: 33
Type: NTSC-U/C
sounds good. I will give it a try.
  _________________
xBronco

http://www.tribesaa.com
Bronco
rank 5
Posted:
Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:34 pm
quote : #8
profile : pm
Posts: 33
Type: NTSC-U/C
How did you point the aads to the new master list?
  _________________
xBronco

http://www.tribesaa.com
loveHATE
rank 1
Posted:
Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:14 am
quote : #9
profile : pm
Posts: 3
I'm confused -- is the main problem we're having that:

1) The AADS won't connect to the new master server list

or

2) We don't have an XP/2000 server to run the AADS on

I distinctly remember having that same windows lag problem with AADS before the master server went down... we just need to find a host for an AADS

(can't believe I've played tribes for this long and never known about this forum -- thanks for all your help regarding the master server lordnikon and playstation)
 
lordnikon
rank 59
Posted:
Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:57 pm
quote : #10
profile : pm
Posts: 2839
Type: NTSC-U/C
Bronco wrote:
How did you point the aads to the new master list?

I actually hexedited the entries in the exe. However you can also simply use the windows hosts file to setup an instant DNS redirect.

loveHATE wrote:
I'm confused -- is the main problem we're having that:

1) The AADS won't connect to the new master server list

or

2) We don't have an XP/2000 server to run the AADS on

I distinctly remember having that same windows lag problem with AADS before the master server went down... we just need to find a host for an AADS

(can't believe I've played tribes for this long and never known about this forum -- thanks for all your help regarding the master server lordnikon and playstation)

Thanks for the kind and supportive words loveHATE. Smile

The problem isn't that AADS won't connect to the new master list, the problem is that something along the way with Windows broke AADS.

For anyone wanting to look into this problem. Try windows 2000, or an early version of Windows XP and start running tests. Also, don't just run 1 or 2 simple tests. Run extensive methodical tests, getting friends to hop onto the server and play for extended periods of time. The interesting thing about the new bugs with AADS is that the game, with no players in it besides yourself, will have game crippling lag. Shots are SUPER delayed.

Preserving legacy OS environments to run server software is going to be a recurring theme as the years progress. As I am almost certain that other software will gradually become incompatible as new operating systems are rolled out.

For each of these systems it is very much about a rebuilding process. I am trying my best to preserve the online experience for each of these consoles. Even if just 1 games was playable online 10 years from now, and only 1 other player wanted to play with you, I feel one should still be able to interact with these hardware/software environments.

Also, the reason you probobly never heard of this community is because it is more of an enthusiasts community, rather than one of the many competative based websites that rise, get consumed by offtopic material, fall, and die out throughout the years. This is a very niche website, and there are people who are still here since it first started years ago in 2003. Odds are, 5 more years from now, there will still be people from this website off on some far off dark space of the net, playing a game of Tribes. Just 2 people, some bots, and some good games. Wink

P.S. - I actually spoke to Ricochet about the problems with AADS. Unfortunatly, he has a lack of perspective on anything that OC represents or the projects and innitiatives that I find to be so important. As you can see from what I wrote above, all I care about is that the software is available and working so people have the capability to utilize it when they want to. I just want people to have the choice. Rico on the other hand required some sort of upswell in community support to lift a finger to fix it. He isn't interested in preserving online games or contributing to software preservation. Rather, he needs an indiciation of social attention in order to pitch in and lend a hand. Knowing what I know about the nature of online gaming, TribesAA isn't going to reach peak player levels like it once did in the past. Even if it does at some point, it will still dwindle down to just the diehard few who are willing to stick with it. I tried my best to outline many of these points to him in a PM at another message board he frequents. However... the motivation just wasn't there for him to do anything to fix AADS.
  _________________
The most effective, in this war?
The Bydo have it... and they control it.
loveHATE
rank 1
Posted:
Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:39 pm
quote : #11
profile : pm
Posts: 3
I'll try to install 2000 on my computer and experiment like you said. I remember this problem happening with the AADS even when the original master server was up. People put up AADS on their brand spankin' new computers only to have their servers inexplicably be lagfests.

Some thing people have been frustrated with on our site is the fact that we have no directions on how to setup our computers/ps2s to host servers. If you could provide some of us less tech-savvy players with a step-by-step guide to doing this, we would really appreciate it (and forgive me if there is such a guide posted somewhere, I did look around a bit).

In a way I do sympathize with Rico, as I'm not sure I'd be falling over myself to code another AADS for a game with 3 people playing, especially when many of the players from the competitive community weren't exactly cordial with him when he was working to provide us with AADS (as an immature teenager playing an online video game, I was/am also guilty of not appreciating his generosity at times, something I really regret). Hopefully the next few months bring more people back to the game and, subsequently, Rico can code a new AADS for the community. Tribesaa.net has been having much more traffic lately, so it is a sign things may be picking back up a little bit.

Anyway, the mission of this site definitely is a respectable one -- looking back on how TAA's online population began to dwindle, people from the competitive community stopped playing once tournaments began to become unsustainable, as if competitive matches were the only fun to be had on tribes (although in my opinion, the most fun Wink ). Hopefully we can foster a good rapport between the few remaining people on this site interested in playing TAA and the people on taa.net and just get some more reunion games going like there has been.
 
lordnikon
rank 59
Posted:
Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:27 pm
quote : #12
profile : pm
Posts: 2839
Type: NTSC-U/C
To add AADS to your hosts file in windows here is what you do:

on windows XP navigate to:

C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers\etc

Then open a file called "hosts" by dragging it into notepad.

Add the following to the hosts file:

72.232.232.162 tribes2.m1.sierra.com
72.232.232.162 tribes2.m2.sierra.com
72.232.232.162 tribes2.m3.sierra.com

What this does is bypass internet DNS servers. So your PC will check this file first before heading out to the internet to resolve a domain name to an IP address. This should redirect the AADS server so that it can redirect to OC's master list.

IMPORTANT: Please don't just throw up AADS servers for people to play on just yet. Host on various versions of windows to try and determine what configurations work to prevent the game crippling lag bug from occurring.

Note: It has also just been identified that AADS is somehow grabbing odd ports outside of the original intended range of 49152-49155. As per AADS documentation you cannot specify a port number to host from. So it is clear there are numerous compatibility problems with AADS. If you want to try and troubleshoot this yourself, use Wireshark to try and find out what port AADS is hosting from so you can add it to your port forwarding in the router.
  _________________
The most effective, in this war?
The Bydo have it... and they control it.
loveHATE
rank 1
Posted:
Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:21 pm
quote : #13
profile : pm
Posts: 3
So far, this is what I've come across:

Windows XP SP3
- Can host AADS servers on OC Master Server, provided hosts file is edited as per lordnikon's post.
- Initial testing suggests it has buggy play; after 5 minutes of playing on server with 10 players, play began to get choppy, with Grenade Launcher and Fusion Mortar weapons acting strangely, and HUDs displaying incorrect information.

Windows 7 x64
- Can host AADS servers on Master Server, provided hosts file is edited as per lordnikon's post.
- Initial testing shows play is steady with 2 players in server; however, more testing should be done with more players.
- Servers do seem to be a tad laggy, with pings in the 130s to 140s; however, they do not appear buggy (with play crashing after 5 mins, like what occurs in winXP SP3).

Mac OSX 10.6.4 (Snow Leopard) + Crossover Pro v8.0
- Surprisingly, AADS can run locally by using Crossover in both win2000 and winxp bottles; however, problems occur when attempting to connect to OC Master Server.
- After editing hosts file on Mac OSX to connect to OC Master Server, master server lists freeze on Play Station 2 locally, and there is a good probability it also freezes globally.
- However, after terminating server, players can connect to master server list again with their PS2 after waiting ~5 mins and restarting PS2.


General Problems
- It seems that even after following all the necessary steps to get EXPERT-A, EXPERT-B, or CHAT-TEST to function, players cannot get their control configurations to change.
 
lordnikon
rank 59
Posted:
Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:07 pm
quote : #14
profile : pm
Posts: 2839
Type: NTSC-U/C
Start with Windows XP then try Service pack 1, and then work your way up from there to see if AADS can run without problems. Obviously there are compatibility issues with SP3 and Windows 7.

AADS should technically run properly on a default WinXP install, or an SP1 upgrade. SP2 I am not so sure.
  _________________
The most effective, in this war?
The Bydo have it... and they control it.
lordnikon
rank 59
Posted:
Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:58 am
quote : #15
profile : pm
Posts: 2839
Type: NTSC-U/C
Bronco wrote:
How did you point the aads to the new master list?

Hey Bronco, we released a handy little app that makes this super easy for anyone. See here:

http://www.onlineconsoles.com/ofproject/releases.html

Wink
  _________________
The most effective, in this war?
The Bydo have it... and they control it.
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